The manner in which India conducts polls, strengthens democracy, also helps us: South Africa envoy

New Delhi, Nov 16 Anil Sooklal, the High Commissioner of South Africa to India, lauded the recent successful conclusion of the Bihar Assembly elections, calling the process a way to further strengthen democracy and said that the African nation also learns from it.

In an exclusive interview with IANS, Sooklal praised "vibrant democracy" India for conducting the elections in an "orderly manner" and stressed that "inclusivity" is the "most important thing in the world" currently.

He also spoke about a series of issues related to the India-South Africa bilateral ties, the upcoming G20 Leaders' Summit, which is being chaired by South Africa, Prime Minister Narendra Modi's role in strengthening the Global South, trade, technology and security, etc.

The following are the edited excerpts from the interview:

IANS: The Bihar Assembly election results were announced recently, and PM Modi's party, the BJP-led alliance, won. However, Rahul Gandhi's Congress faced a crushing defeat. What is your take on the results?

Anil Sooklal: Well, it's not appropriate for me to comment on Indian politics. We do follow developments in India, as is normal for the diplomatic community. It's something we report on, and we follow the elections, because, like India, we are a vibrant democracy. I would like to extend our congratulations to the Indian people and government for the manner in which the elections were conducted, and to congratulate those who have been successful. I think this is how democracy works.

We had an observer team from South Africa as part of the observer mission, because we learn. India is the largest democracy, and the manner in which you conduct the elections with a population of Bihar, which I believe is over 100 million people, is itself bigger than South Africa's population. But the orderly manner in which your elections were conducted, the peaceful manner in which it was conducted, these are all the elements that strengthen democracy and also help us. Coming from a democratic society in South Africa, to see how we can work together and learn from each other in deepening democracy, because this is what the world needs today.

Increasingly, we are seeing actions being taken by nations that are not inclusive, that are exclusionary, and that are unilateral in nature. And we forget that democracy is about the people, and people must come first, their needs. And that is why elections are so important: to give the people an opportunity to decide on their leaders through an inclusive, peaceful process, as we saw in Bihar.

IANS: Since South Africa is chairing the G20 Leaders' Summit, what are the major areas the country is focusing on, and how do you plan to push for the issues concerning the African continent?

Anil Sooklal: Upon assumption of South Africa's chairship, we outlined our theme and priorities. South Africa's theme, as we enunciated at the very outset of our presidency, is solidarity, equality and sustainability. It builds on the themes of the previous chairs, especially starting with Indonesia in 2022, followed by India and Brazil last year. The G20 is a continuous process, and therefore, we wanted to build on the gains made, not just these past four chairships, but including those from when the G20 was elevated to a summit level in November 2008 in Washington.

Under the broad theme, we have identified certain key priorities. And this includes inclusive economic growth, addressing the challenges of inequality and unemployment, as well as industrialisation, especially within the African continent and the Global South.

Secondly, we also built on the previous chairs' focus on food security. Thirdly, we looked at the issue of AI and innovation for sustainable development, including data governance.

It's the first time that the G20 summit is going to be held on the African continent, with South Africa hosting it, being the only full African state that's a member state of the G20. So, naturally, we would use this opportunity to bring sharp focus on the African continent, especially its developmental issues. So, we have, throughout the course of all of the meetings, mainstreamed the African Union's Agenda 2063, the Africa we want, and its programs of action. We've also brought sharp focus on the African continental free trade area, and how the G20 can partner with the African continent in terms of deepening trade with our partners globally.

The other major issue pertains to debt sustainability. This has been on the agenda of the G20, especially given the impact that COVID has had on our economies. We are building on the G20 framework on debt that was adopted in 2020, when Saudi Arabia was the president of the G20. Because debt sustainability is preventing the development of especially African countries, a large portion of GDP is used to service debt. And therefore, South Africa has brought sharp focus on this.

These are the key issues, but a further important area under the working groups we have created, task teams, is on critical minerals -- a major focus of the global community, and by and large, Africa is a major reservoir of critical minerals, which are necessary in terms of new technologies, especially our transition to green energy.

And we are very keen that we don't have the repeat of old patterns of trading with Africa, where Africa is seen merely as a provider of natural resources, and Africa doesn't gain through the process of beneficiation. Of course, the issues of climate action will also feature prominently, as will issues pertaining to reform of the global governance architecture, including the Bretton Woods Institution, the World Trade Organisation, and the United Nations system, which are traditionally part of the G20 agenda.

IANS: How do you see the India-South Africa ties, in trade, technology and security, evolving in the coming times? Also, what issues are expected to be discussed during the upcoming bilateral meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and South African President Cyril Ramaphosa?

Anil Sooklal: The India-South Africa relationship is based on a shared history and remains a historical relationship. Being countries of the Global South, India and South Africa, we both have suffered from exploitation and colonialism and have come out of a difficult past. We are member states of many Global South formations. The BRICS is an important platform where we work together with our other BRICS partners.

Also, when Prime Minister Modi goes to South Africa next week, he will not only participate in the G20 Summit, but he will also attend a summit of IPSA, the India-Brazil-South Africa formation -- also an important platform of the Global South with three vibrant democracies coming together. And this has been in existence for over two decades.

We also work very closely together with India, within the climate change discussions, the basic group, we are members of that. Of course, within the global multilateral system, the WTO and the UN system, we work very closely together.

At the bilateral level, of course, as I've said, we have a shared history. India was one of the first countries to support our struggle against apartheid and to support our liberation struggle. So, since we became a democracy in 1994, our relationship has grown significantly. India is our third-largest trading partner and was one of our most important global partners. We have a very deep foundation that underpins our relationship, which is vibrant and continues to grow.

I'm sure when Prime Minister Modi and President Ramaphosa meet next week for a bilateral meeting, they will reflect on the status of the relationship. We will also look at new areas of cooperation in deepening this very important relationship in areas like security cooperation, people-to-people contact, trade and investment, cultural cooperation, as you know, sports and culture are a major pillar of our cooperation in terms of cementing ties between our respective countries.

IANS: Do you think that Prime Minister Modi is playing a key role in strengthening the Global South, especially after the role India played to include the African Union in the G20 as a member?

Anil Sooklal: It's a given fact that Prime Minister Modi is highly respected globally within the African continent; he's held in high regard in South Africa. We see him as an important global leader who is championing issues of the global south, including Africa. This will be Prime Minister Modi's fourth visit to South Africa in less than a decade. I think he's one of the Indian Prime Ministers who has gone to South Africa the most. President Murmu has also visited several African countries since she assumed office. This signifies the importance that India places on its relationship with the African continent, including South Africa. That is why he's highly regarded.

And we must recall that it was through his efforts, and that of the Indian government, which championed the inclusion of the African Union into the G20 as a full member during India's presidency in 2023. The African continent leaders have spoken very favorably of the role that India and, especially, Prime Minister Modi played in ensuring that the AU is now a full member.

IANS: You are the first Indian origin diplomat from South Africa in New Delhi. Can you recall the journey of how your family moved from India to South Africa?

Anil Sooklal: If you have to look at the movement of Indians from India, under British rule, starting in 1834, after the abolition of slavery, the British Empire had to find other forms of cheap labour in order that the empire continued to prosper. And for this, India was the crown of the British Empire; they saw it as a ready source of labour. That is why you had movement of Indians under the so-called indenture system, where Indians were transported beginning in 1834, to Mauritius, followed by the countries in the Caribbean, and then South Africa and Fiji.

My family history is also linked to that time. My great-grandparents left from a village in Ghazipur, in UP, and were taken to Durban, the place of my birth in the province of Natal, where they were assigned to work in a sugar plantation. I'm fourth-generation Indian, my roots are in a village in Ghazipur, and I had the privilege of visiting that village last weekend. It was my first trip to Ghazipur, where I participated in the Ghazipur Literary Festival. I had the opportunity to go and find my village.

It was a pilgrimage for us, not just for us physically, but for my entire family back in South Africa. And many from the Indian community were very excited about this journey to our roots. India is part of my DNA as much as Africa is. I'm very fortunate in that sense, within me, you'll see the blending of two streams, the Indian stream and the African stream.

IANS: What role do you think the Indian diaspora in South Africa plays in strengthening the people-to-people connect and shared cultural heritage between the two nations?

Anil Sooklal: I've always believed the diaspora of any community in the world is a link between the country of residence of the diaspora community and the current country of origin. Naturally, today, the Indian diaspora is extremely large and one of the biggest globally, with almost 35 million Indians living in the diaspora.

South Africa has one of the largest Indian diaspora populations. In fact, Africa today is estimated to be the home of 3.5 million people of Indian origin -- half of that is resident in South Africa. South Africa's population of people of Indian origin is almost 1.75 million.

Of course, there are strong cultural and people-to-people ties between people of Indian origin and India, and of course, wider South African society. This is a very vibrant linkage on all fronts, the business front, in terms of family ties that still exist in many instances, and of course, in terms of spiritual, cultural, music, art, dance, Bollywood, Indian cuisine, and Indian dress, we are linked at every level. The culture is still maintained, and we have some 200-300 temples scattered throughout South Africa. The religious practices of the Indian community are very tied to India. Many of them also embark on pilgrimages to India, as seen during the Mahakumbh, where hundreds of South Africans came to participate.

The diaspora community is an important link between South Africa and India, and plays an important role in deepening ties between our two countries.

IANS: As South Africa's Ambassador to India, what would be your top priority in terms of further strengthening the relationship between the two nations?

Anil Sooklal: Deepening our relationship with India at every level, economic, trade and investment, people-to-people interaction, looking at opportunities. India can assist us and has been assisting us in terms of skills development, capacity building, educational exchanges between our students and academics, joint research in the field of science and technology, and also how we can benefit in some key sectors where India has done so well.

The agricultural sector, using technology for the upliftment and advancement of our people, your digital public infrastructure, for example, is a good example of what technology can do to fast-track the development of a country and its people.

Of course, the medical and pharmaceutical sector is something we're very keen to deepen cooperation with India, because there are so many opportunities for us in this field. And tourism is also an important focus for us. We'd like to see more and more Indian tourists visiting South Africa. One of the things, unfortunately, we don't have at present is a direct flight between our two countries. This impacts both the business sector and the tourism sector. And we have been in discussions with a number of airlines, both in South Africa and India. We are hopeful that next year there will be a direct flight between our two countries.

India is a vast country. I have been privileged to visit several states, which I do regularly, to get a better understanding and appreciation of India, and to also ensure that India as a whole, the different states, its diverse peoples, have exposure to what South Africa is all about, and to deepen interaction between our peoples.

We're very fortunate when you saw movement of Indians from India to South Africa, they came mainly from five pockets -- Gujarat, UP, Bihar, Tamil Nadu, and Andhra Pradesh. We have very vibrant Tamil, Telugu, Hindi, and Gujarati-speaking communities in South Africa, and deepening ties with all of these communities, and the other states of India, is a major focus for the embassy.

IANS: What is the current status of the charges and sanctions faced by the Gupta family? Are there any discussions with India or other nations in connection with this case?

Anil Sooklal: Well, I personally don't have any information about the whereabouts. There have been issues during the stay in South Africa that have been addressed by my government. The relationship between India and South Africa is beyond any individual. It's a government-to-government, state-to-state relationship. It's a very healthy relationship, a relationship that continues to expand. And both countries are enriched by this friendship that we enjoy. As I said, it's underpinned by a very historical friendship. Prime Minister Modi's visit to South Africa is going to be an important occasion for us to further reflect on what we consider a very important and critical relationship for South Africa.

I'm not aware of any of these (update on Gupta family). My focus is on deepening the government-to-government relationship.

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